newbery honor author 

new york times bestseller

Gennifer Choldenko
Gennifer Choldenko

THE ALCATRAZ INTERVIEWS

Daughter of the Acting Warden During the Most Famous Escape

Jolene Babyak lived on the Rock in 1954–1955 and also 1962. Her father was act­ing war­den when War­den Black­well was on vaca­tion, which hap­pened dur­ing the most famous escape attempt on Alca­traz. She is a pre­miere Alca­traz author and historian.

Jolene Babyak

1.

How did it feel to be the Asso­ciate War­den’s daughter?

My dad was just my dad. I was pret­ty uncon­scious at the age of 15. I was just try­ing to fig­ure out who I was. If any­thing it might have embar­rassed me a lit­tle bit.

2.

Did you feel more respon­si­ble because you were the warden’s daughter?

No.

3.

Did you get spe­cial treatment?

The only thing I remem­ber hap­pen­ing was once I missed the boat and the pilot, Pat Mahoney, turned the boat around to go back and get me. It was just a lit­tle turn­around but it was embar­rass­ing at the time. Lat­er I won­dered if it was because I was the A.W.’s daugh­ter. But he assured me that it was because he liked me!

4.

Any down­side to being the War­den’s daughter?

There was a girl on the island who I thought didn’t like me because it was rumored that her dad had been up for the job. But my father got the pro­mo­tion instead.

5.

Are you the per­son who deter­mined which was Al Capone’s cell? And if so, how were you able to doc­u­ment this?

John Mar­ti­ni and I worked on this togeth­er. There were three dif­fer­ent num­ber­ing sys­tems on the cells. When Al Capone came to Alca­traz the orig­i­nal num­ber­ing sys­tem was in place. By cre­at­ing a grid of all three num­ber­ing sys­tems we were able to deter­mine which was Al Capone’s cell. (Cell #181).

6.

Giv­en the mythol­o­gy around Alca­traz, what are some of the guide­lines you use to deter­mine fact from fiction?

I only use pri­ma­ry sources and doc­u­ments. I read books and news­pa­pers for col­or (quotes, atti­tude) but gen­er­al­ly not for facts.

7.

What are some of the most sur­pris­ing facts you’ve dis­cov­ered about Alcatraz?

The size of the cells. (5’x 9’). I was shocked by how small they were. Also, I was sur­prised by how col­le­gial some of the pris­on­ers and the guards were. You can’t work in an envi­ron­ment that is hate­ful all the time. Peo­ple found the human­i­ty where they could.

8.

Were there ever any kids on the island who you thought shouldn’t be there?

No, if you got in trou­ble, your dad got in trou­ble and then you’d be in trou­ble when you got home too.

9.

In your book, Eye­wit­ness on Alca­traz, you talk about get­ting a hand ball from a pris­on­er. You said “It was a proud moment; I had in my hand the most valu­able item on Alca­traz — the cov­et­ed black hand­ball that had rolled down the hill from the prison yard wall.” One of the ques­tions kids always ask me, is what hap­pened to that ball? They want to know if it’s on eBAY or what?

I don’t have that exact hand­ball. But I was for­tu­nate enough to be the recip­i­ent of anoth­er hand­ball, also from a pris­on­er on Alca­traz. That one I still have.

10.

You were liv­ing on the island dur­ing the 1962 Mor­ris-Anglin escape; can you tell me what that felt like?

The escape was fun. If it had been two a.m. and there had been guns it would have been scary, but we found out at sev­en a.m. It was broad day­light. My moth­er came in and I could tell by her voice she was excit­ed, because life would be dif­fer­ent that day. We had to go into the cel­lar and I grabbed a par­ing knife. That part was a lit­tle scary. My moth­er made me go first.

11.

Why?

Because I had the par­ing knife.

12.

As an Alca­traz his­to­ri­an who has spent the bet­ter part of her life research­ing Alca­traz, is it your opin­ion that the men in the 1962 escape attempt, (the Anglin broth­ers and Frank Mor­ris) drowned or do you think they made it?

The Anglin broth­ers were show-offs; it would have been impos­si­ble for them to hide out with­out telling any­one. (There’s no fun in that.)

Mor­ris was qui­et, but he had no rel­a­tives and few resources. They weren’t like James “Whitey” Bul­ger, who also spent time on the Rock. Years lat­er, Bul­ger land­ed on the Ten Most Want­ed list for almost two decades before he was caught in 2011. When found, he had stashed more than $800,000 in cash in his apart­ment. That’s after not work­ing for two decades! Mor­ris and the Anglins were small-time crim­i­nals with no mon­ey except what they could steal.

Jolene Babyak has pub­lished numer­ous books on Alca­traz includ­ing: Eye­wit­ness on Alca­trazBreak­ing the Rock, the Great Escape from Alca­traz; and Bird­man: The Many Faces of Robert Stroud. She has inter­viewed scores of for­mer res­i­dents, pris­on­ers and guards, reviewed hun­dreds of Alca­traz files, and is cur­rent­ly work­ing on anoth­er book about life on Alcatraz. 

Inter­viewed by Gen­nifer Chold­enko in Berke­ley, Cal­i­for­nia, on July 10, 2013